Q: Was it out of suspicion or what?
A: Leave that to you and me. That was sacrifice. I give you a good story. When I was instructed to prepare vehicles to move weapons to the various fronts from the railway, so we went, got there and what we wanted was high calibre weapons, we searched the whole train, they didn’t exist. Ojukwu joined us at the railway and he said God! At the point he said, but there are weapons, rifles, anybody who wanted to fire, give them. Training or no training – give them and that is how it started and some of the young people lost; enthusiasts, lost their lives in Nsukka front, you see that is how I am amazed, people see war as play thing, war is not a play thing, you must be prepared for it.
Q: What will you in one sentence, say was Ojukwu’s mistake in that war?
A: He acted before time. You can imagine, all the weaponry, everything belonged to Nigerian army and they had it, Biafra had superior man power, most of the officers were of Biafran origin, material is important. Ojukwu tried his best but he had this failings which we must not lose sight of, which is only natural anyway, that is how I see him.
Q: Was there at a point the Biafran high command started suspecting Yoruba officers? If so, Why, if not, why not?
A: That is incorrect and never never. Civilians maybe but within the army there was no suspicion. I give you an example. Once I was travelling from Onitsha to come to a place called Agbo Ogwugwu, it is close to Enugu. Then I was arrested. Why was I arrested?
On December 3, 1967, when I took delivery of my first Peugeot car, one Igbo man took delivery of his own too and it happened that for about 6 – 7 months we were servicing our cars at the same place. Once he came to the hotel in Onitsha and he saw a man, he knew I was a Yoruba man, but he didn’t ask me, he greeted me, and he said can we have dinner tomorrow and I said with all pleasure.
While I was changing, the hotel was surrounded and I saw the boy and I asked what is it, and he said we are looking for a Yoruba major, I said where are you from, he said we are Biafran boys, and I said I was the Yoruba man, he said you are under arrest. I said what? That time FG just captured Asaba and they taught I infiltrated from Asaba to Onitsha and I said what is the next thing? I said before then, let us go and see the DPO he knows me. The boy came in two vehicles and I drove mine. I followed them, unfortunately for me, we got to the police station, the DPO was not around, his officer who has seen me regularly for weeks kept quiet, they denied me and said ah. If they denied it would have been better, they said ‘we don’t know him.’ I said ok lets go to the army headquarters, a colleague of mine, Major Anan was there, and they said ehnn this Anan self, one day we will deal with him, come it is the Biafran boys who want you not Anan.
I followed them and they had a point under the bridge where they carried out executions, they were taking me down there. So we went on, as luck would have it, as we got to the entrance of the bridge, Colonel Iwanwa was there, and he said ah Fola, kedu (how are you, what happened)? We have been waiting for you and I said, you can’t see me oo, I am under arrest. He said these riff raffs arrest you? Ahh you better come to army headquarters where everybody knows you. So to say soldiers didn’t trust Yoruba officers maybe it exist but I didn’t experience it. But some civilians didn’t feel comfortable within the 18 months of the war but towards the end I was a celebrity!
Q: The other time you were explaining that Nzeogwu died in action, it was like a coded language, please can you explain more…
A: He died trying to fight with the Nigerian troops with his rag-tag boys, not an organized unit because nobody gave him a unit but the urging was too much, he couldn’t sit down watching, and soldiers really respected him, officers respected him so he would gather a few people and say common lets go, not an organized attack, and he got killed.
Q: Presently there is agitation for Biafra led by Kanu, what can you say about the agitation? Is the agitation right or…
A: the agitation can never be right. Who is he? What does he know about Biafra? The Kanu boy, he doesn’t know anything about Biafra and without apology if anybody should agitate in Nigeria today with the set-up, maybe it is going to be the Yoruba people. But since I am one of them I just want to look because I think the Igbo are getting more than their share but they are still complaining. What can you do? But I don’t know where the trend of Biafra will lead them, I don’t know. I can’t even see it leading anywhere except crisis; if they know what it is to have a war, they won’t do it. Enthusiasm of the ignorant!
A: Selfless Igbo elders won’t support them; the likes of Ezeife are not talking sense. If you listen to him, I don’t think he is right. They should let a sleeping dog lie. Again it is the fault of the government because I think there is enough, how much did we spend on this jamboree of this Confab, what has come out of it? I don’t think anybody is thinking about it. I for once thought it was unnecessary. If you really want anything reasonable to happen, take this Aburi accord, take the Justice Uwais report. I think it is Justice Uwais or one judge, who advocated: select a maximum of 12 people and let them think about it because left to me before 1966 we could improve on what happened then and you can see these days everybody wants federal fund, nobody was asking for federal funds in those days, every region was working on its own, today people carry brief case, our quota in Abuja, why? Go and examine what the constitution in those days was, examine the Aburi accord, examine what Justice Uwais commission contains, see how it can be managed, see how it can be married. These, about 400 people? They can’t give us a good deal – constitution, good money thrown away – billions. It is sad.Q: Not all Igbo elders are supporting it, but the youths are into it
Q: Despite that Biafra gave its all, it lost the war, what will you say was the last straw that broke it?
A: The straw can’t be anything except arms and ammunition. Don’t forget, here again the Igbo, they shot themselves in the foot. Some promised Ojukwu, just carry on we will give you arms, when it came to the crux, where are the arms? Aah. There was a committee for ammunition. To show you that there was never discrimination against me as a person, I was on this committee, the person nominated to go and negotiate arms for us, he went and never came back, he went to England and disappeared. Incidentally I think he was a pharmacist. You send people to go and monitor the enemy, they said yes. They go there and settled down and started living. We call them BOFF (Biafran Organisation for Freedom Fighters) and some people used a vulgar language. I am sure you have them too on Nigerian side but because they won the war you won’t hear it.
Q: But there is a kind of what I will call a distinction between those who supported Biafra in Africa especially the Francophone countries, what is the reason for that?
A: France is the force. France didn’t make any noise but we knew where the interest was.
Q: There is this expression sir, ole ku ija Ore (battle of Ore was tough)… What were the Biafrans coming to do on this side?
A: This is very sensitive. It is a nasty experience. Before coming to Ore at all, the war was supposed to be in the east against the west and the rest and as at that point the Biafrans had people in the west waiting to receive them. Fine I said I commanded troops at Ugheli, Ugheli was not part of the team, Oghele wasn’t. But here again, Banjo and Ojukwu decided to have quarrel and they quarrelled to the extent that if you capture the west, it is going to be under Biafra. It won’t be a separate entity of itself.
Q: Who made that assertion?
A: Ojukwu. That was why we stayed that long in Bendel of that time or Midwest of that time otherwise it is to walk across and people were waiting including some officers of this side to support. While they were arguing, the federal side got wind of it. Meanwhile Banjo was accused of hobnobbing with the British deputy commissioner in Benin. While they were quarrelling over this, the federal troops got an upper hand and moved into the Midwest.
Q: Between these two instances, were there any other instances when Ojukwu and Banjo quarrelled?
A: I think that is the one I can remember. Before then in the Nigerian army both of them being graduates had an affinity like that. When we were released from Prison, I was released in Enugu. I was brought from Owerri to Enugu where we declared to have been released, they look for houses in Independence layout for us, Banjo lived in Government place – they were so close.
Q: But things fell apart between them,
A: Well it is this question of capturing Lagos and so on. That is all I know. They were very close. It was the question of affinity that they looked down on non graduate officers but that’s something on the back. It is unfortunate.
Q: Going back to the 50 years of the coup, what mistake will you say Nzeogwu and his people made?
A: I will say none. As far as I am concerned, individuals made mistake in the pattern of the people killed. There was something like a mini war amongst us in Kirikiri, ‘why did you do this or that? This was not your instruction, the instruction was to arrest and wait for further instructions, why was this man not given a chance, why did you go to a hotel to adopt and kill people…’
These were silly mistakes, and if that was known, some of the people wouldn’t have taken part and having said that all those detained were southerners. Do you mean, even in the north, it was southerners who did it? Not a single northerner was detained, so Nigeria still has problem.
Q: That takes us back to the first question we asked that Ahmadu Bello, Tafawa Balewa were killed…
A: Killed by Nigerian troops and not necessarily Igbo troops. Troops of the Nigerian army.
Q: Nzeogwu went and killed the Sardauna …
A: Were you there? Even me I can’t say who did what. We all knew Sarduana lost his life and it was an aerial operation.
Q: After retirement, what have you been doing? People will be curious to know
A: what will I do at this age – 77?
Q: But you retired a long time ago, between then and now
A: I tried my hand on business, being a career transport officer; I tried running transport business in partnership with a cousin. Later, I joined the Lagos state as a commissioner – local government service commission. When the road safety war was to start, we had a planning committee which I was drafted into because of my experience in transport and supposedly I was doing my best.
Somebody said, oga, it seems road safety corp has become your baby. I was still with the commission, as a certified commissioner in the local government service commission. I said No, but he said you have been appointed as a director.
Q: Was it the time Professor Wole Soyinka set the team up in Oyo State?
A: Soyinka was in Ibadan. In fact I went to Ibadan… Road safety was in Lagos but not every state. It was only Ibadan and Lagos
Q: You did not finish secondary school…
A. I went to City College and I didn’t finish. When the teacher training in 1955 was to start, my father said I should be a teacher, so I became a teacher and at 17 plus I worked for Salvation Army and they decided to make me headmaster and I said am too young to be a headmaster, I must consult my parents.
Q: Was it at that point you joined the army?
A: I joined the army in 1961
Q: Did your parents agree?
A: They didn’t agree. Incidentally a cousin of mine was living with us and he too applied, while I was going through the exam, they wrote him to say he should try some other time because my initials with my father’s initials were the same thing. My father got the letter, opened it and said ahh thank God it has been rejected. That weekend I went to Ibadan for the final selection, I came back and then my father said have you seen your letter, I said yes, it is not mine, it is for my cousin and incidentally I have been away in Ibadan for a week, that is for the military interview and I have been selected. That’s how I joined. By the end of the course, I was nominated to go to England and that’s how I started.
Q: Can you tell us within the war, the day you came face to face with death apart from those who wanted to go and kill you then?
A: Maybe the day I was moving to Oghele from Onitsha. Some people stopped the convoy. I didn’t even know what to do. It was a mere ambush, and then suddenly I assessed the people who were facing me. These rag tag people, they are not soldiers. I told the convoy, go to wherever you are going and I told the assailants, ‘don’t mess around with this convoy’. And that was all, that was the nearest.
Q: And they obeyed just like that?
A: Yes
Q: Perhaps, some people may say being a Yoruba man you used juju to command them!
A: No, no. And other time when I was running away to join the Biafra. In Agbor but I was lucky, they didn’t know me- the troops- and they said common open your booth and I buried my head in the booth and they didn’t see anything and they said go, I passed along four different check points until I reach…
Q: You were leaving this side to go and join the Biafra.
